Hello and welcome to the Simplicity Parenting podcast with me, Kim John Payne, and today I have the real honor of introducing Laura Carlin to you. Laura is the co-author, together with her sister actually, of this wonderful book, Clutter Free Parenting, Making Space in Your Home for the Magic of Childhood and the Joy of Parenthood. Welcome, Laura.
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, Laura, it's so wonderful.
We've been friends and colleagues for many years, and I finally get to introduce our community to you all around the world, and one of the things I was struck by in reading your book is right at the beginning, you talk about your own story at a really young age when decluttering and having a space that is harmonious and free of clutter was important for you. Can you just start by telling us a little bit about that? Sure. So, as you said, I started clutter clearing when I was nine years old and got my sister to join me as well, although I have to say I was more the clutter clearing organizer and she had more fun with the redecorating and rearranging piece of it.
But it was fun for us, and also it was very healing for me because my parents at the time were going through a very contentious divorce, and then my grandparents died suddenly in a tragic accident, and I was very anxious as a child. And so later, when I reflected back on this time, I realized that as I was clutter clearing and creating more order and peace in my outer surroundings, I was creating more peace inside of myself. And that really struck me at such a young age to actually be able to do that together with your sister, and then all these years later, to be able to co-author a book like this with your sister, that must have just been full circle, really.
And you go into the book, at the beginning you talk about something that interests me a great deal, which is this making space for parenthood and making space for childhood. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Because that's such an interest that we share. Yeah, so I believe that parenting should, for the most part, be a joyful experience.
And yet what I've seen in the last 20 years, working on my own home and working with clients, is that all too often our homes, and as you well know and talk about in your work, our homes and life can feel just overwhelming and stressful. And I realized that the physical blocks become emotional blocks. So the physical clutter really gets in the way of the love, of the flow of love between us and our kids.
And so as parents, I think that it's so important, because parenting can be challenging, that we really have homes that support us and work for us, because so much of life with children revolves around the home and it revolves around all those daily repetitive tasks. And each of those moments can be moments for presence and connection and being at our best and enjoying our kids, or those moments can be really frustrating and overwhelming. And often the difference is whether or not clutter is in the way, how well our home is working for us, or whether it's working against us.
And also, likewise, this making space for childhood, this just being able to open spaces up for the children to be able to have their creativity flow into those spaces. You've had firsthand experience of that, of course, yourself. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Sure.
So I have an example of that that's very literal. So one of the benefits of clearing clutter is that it literally can make space for dreams. It creates space and time and energy to pursue the things that are most meaningful for us.
So my younger son, Matthew, when he was seven, he took an interest in model train building, building model train layouts. And that's a hobby that requires a lot of space. And it started in our kitchen, and there's glue and paper mache and eight by four work tables.
And I'm thinking this really can't last in our kitchen. And we had a storage room in the basement in our home, and there were three walls, and they were lined with shelves, and there were boxes on every shelf. And we decided that we were going to make this into a model train building room.
And so there were a few things in there that were cherished items that we relocated, but most of the stuff that we just let go of. And what happened since then, Matthew is now 12. So this is five years later.
He is still building model train layouts. He has worked at a train museum with his dad. He has written an essay about model train building called My Life with Trains.
And it actually ended up winning a contest. And one of the lines from the essay was, and then my, wait, I'll see if I can get this right. My mind got carried away, and then I said it.
I want to do this for the rest of my life. And so I think about that moment where I could have easily said, we don't have room for model train building. And for what? For a room filled with stuff where I could not tell you what was in those boxes.
Versus something that he may end up doing for the rest of his life. And, you know, Laura, I've been into the model train room downstairs at your place. And it's just like walking into a creative wonderland to see what your son has made down there is, is this really something, isn't it? It's something you must never get used to.
It's, that's exactly right. You know, it's magic. It's not just for him serving his dream, but it's been, it's been a gift to the whole family because there's nothing more special than being down there and watching Matthew and his element wholly creating.
And of course, creativity, you know, that moves sideways into so many other areas to have a child, you know, lay down those neural pathways, even on that basic level, that kind of creativity flows into so many other aspects of, of a child's life. And then that's a, that's a beautiful example about creating space or the dilemma. And it's like, we don't have space and haven't been made.
You know, one of the things, you mentioned just a minute ago, you know, about dreams and hopes and the, the, the clarifying of, of intentions, like really setting an intent. I was struck when I read that. Can you just unpack that a little bit for us? Sure.
So before I even begin clutter clearing or have clients clutter clear, we start with this process of, of setting intentions of really thinking about, well, what does my ideal home and life look like and feel like? How do I want my day to day to, to, how do I want to be spending my time day to day? And I think that setting intentions just ends up informing the entire process because I'm a, I'm a believer also in that, how we clear can be as important as what we clear. So we want to, how, how we are with ourselves and how we go about clearing, what our intentions are, you know, that is going to influence the energy in our home and in our lives. So it can be very powerful to just begin with those initial, you know, just imagining what is, what is my ideal home and life, life look like? What do I value? And then what happens through the process of clearing clutter is you'll get even more clarity.
And then later on in the process, I have people revisit that and go even deeper into their intentions. Hmm. Yeah.
Because, because you, you go on in your writing to talk about, you know, and it's so helpful for me when I was reading this of, of actually defining what actually is clutter because, you know, one person's clutter is another person's treasure. And, and, you know, I came across that often when I would go and visit people in their homes and I'd work with couples and I would see that firsthand. And I learned a lot from reading your book because I thought, you know what? I really should spend a little bit more time with defining what is clutter.
So that particularly in a two parent home, there's the process is a little easier. That was, that was a bit of an aha moment for me. Can you lead us through these steps of, of, of that definition? I found this a really interesting part of the book.
Sure. So I define clutter as anything that is not loved or useful. It's, it's that, that simple, at least on the surface, it appears that simple.
And so the way, so the way that you check in to see whether or not something is loved and useful, and ideally we want to really love everything in our homes. We want to have everything in our home, lift us up and, and inspire us. And, and we can even develop that relationship with the useful items just by appreciating them and for how well they serve us.
But the way to check in to see whether items are loved or useful is to, when for useful items to ask yourself, okay, well, when is the last time I used it? How often do I use it? Do I have something else in my house that serves the same purpose? And for loved items, we want to observe. We want to observe our thoughts and our feelings and how our body responds. Because if we initially, if the item triggers a negative memory or, or a negative thought, then chances are, it's not loved anymore.
And we also, usually our body responds. When we love something, we take a deep breath and we feel expansive. And then when we don't love something, we feel that tightening pit in our stomach feeling.
And as you said, it's very personal. You know, people would love it if I could come in and clear their clutter, but I truly couldn't do that because you, you can't determine for someone else what is loved and useful, only they can determine that for themselves. Can you give us, give us a couple of examples of, of folk you've worked with when, when you've actually gone through that process, things that, that have flowed and it seemed like, oh yeah, that's, that's going well.
And other times when it's, when it's harder for, for a parent for us to, to actually come to a place of knowing, you know, is that loved? Is that useful? Can you give us, just as we move towards ending our, our, this first in this series of podcasts on this topic, can you give us a few examples? Sure. See, that's, what's so exciting about working with people in the environment because our homes are a reflection of our consciousness, but it's enough outside of us that when it's pointed out to you, it becomes very, usually it becomes pretty obvious. So you can kind of go about your day and tune out to things.
But when I come and consult and say, oh, you know, well, tell me about this piece of art and we're standing in front of it. And then all of a sudden the story will come out. And, and, and, you know, I've had a couple who, who realized, wow, you know, that was the day we got that piece of art, we were actually had an argument and the energy of that day had actually stuck with the piece of art.
So just having that, that observing and checking in usually makes it pretty clear. But I can tell you that there's a few things that a lot of people struggle with and they tend to be unwanted gifts. You know, you've been given, you've been given a gift and you don't like it, but you feel obligated to keep it.
Things that are too expensive to let go of, meaning that you spent a lot of money on it and you realize, oh gosh, I made a mistake. I'm never going to use it. But because you spent the money on it, you don't want to let go of it.
And then what I refer to, which is a term developed by Karen Kingston, just in case clutter, which is when we are anticipating and we're thinking about the future and it's always this negative future. I'm going to hold on to these crutches just in case someone in the family sprains their ankle again, or I'm going to hold on to this item that I really don't like just in case we don't have money next, next month to buy one that I really do like. So those are some of the most common things that come up.
That is, that is, that really nails it, doesn't it? It really does. Laura, we'll be following this up next week with a, where we go on to talk a little bit more about the how. Today we've, we've introduced the idea of, of like the what, you know, and, and what are the benefits and so on.
But that'll come back in other, in other recordings. But this, today I've really appreciated this sort of bigger picture overview just prior to then jumping into, into the practicalities of it. So thanks everyone for tuning in this week and check back with us really soon because because this fascinating journey into how is coming right up.
Thanks Laura. Thank you.
