Hello and welcome back to the Simplicity Parenting Podcast and these Simplicity Diaries. So glad you could join us again this week. I've been thinking a lot, actually over the last couple of months, about the problem of consequences and how so many parents find that consequences, whilst they're effective, a little bit, particularly in the first sort of three to six months or so when they're introduced, pretty quickly the kids seem to stop responding to consequences and to threats of consequences.
And I talk to a bunch of parents saying there's got to be a better way. And there is. That's the good news.
There is a better way. And this will be a two-part podcast. It's just too much information to put into one.
So what I'm going to do is today lay out some of the problems with consequences, which largely, to a very large extent actually, are based on what was known in the 70s and 80s, the 1970s and 80s, as behavior modification. And unusually, I'll actually read from my Soul of Discipline book, because I was looking at the book, preparing for the podcast today, and I thought, you know what, it would just be really great to read these couple of pages and then give some comments on them as well. So I'll do a little bit of reading.
And this is all about the problems that consequences and its close cousin behavior modification has. And this will be the first part. And then next week, we'll take the second part of what you can do about it.
So this part, this week is the depressing week, right? You know, this is like, okay, here's what the problem is. But, you know, it's really good to lay out what the problem is before trying to think about and come up with and value any kind of solution. Okay, so here's just some little clips from the Soul of Discipline book.
If you ever want to find it, it's on page 234. What concerns parents about behavior modification and consequences with its rewards and punishments was the underlying motivation for compliance. Children did not understand and accept the parents' true authority.
They complied because what they could get out of the exchange. Behavior mod and consequences works for about three to six months. And if you're dealing with an out-of-control kid, it can seem like magic.
But the trouble is that kids start to build up modification calluses, consequence calluses. Now, kids say the dumbest things, particularly when they're figuring out how to beat the system. Because a system, this is.
Things that I've heard over the years as a school and family counselor have both made me smile and flinch. Kids see right through a technique and figure out a straightforward way of working it to their advantage. In this next section, I'll discuss some of the children's comments that I've read, overheard, or been told about.
Okay, so what I'll do now is I'll read some of these little brief paragraphs of things that I've heard. Okay, so back into the text. The first one is bargaining chips.
I overheard a young child in a supermarket line say, well, I'll do it for three cookies and a soda. I expected the mother to say, this is not up for discussion. But instead she said, no, you may only have one cookie and one soda.
Intense bargaining followed. I just wished she was wearing an earpiece and that I could communicate her secretly like the way a producer prompts a TV anchor. So I could have whispered to her, just say no, quietly, but firmly.
I still remember that exchange like it was yesterday, actually, that poor mom. Okay, so the next one is cost-benefit analysis. A parent says, if you don't stop whatever you are doing, young man, you will not be having any lasagna tonight.
Now a child runs a cost-benefit analysis and says, well, I don't like your lasagna anyway, so I'm not going to stop. A parent says, Jonathan, if you don't stop, I'm afraid we will not be going to Sophie's house. The child's mental wheels turn and he says, hmm, I don't like Sophie.
It's you who likes Sophie's mother, so I don't care if we go anyway. In both scenarios, the parent ends up, at least in that moment, powerless. The expert negotiator.
The child takes on the role of a tiny attorney. We call them Bush lawyers in Australia. A child told her mom, you didn't see anything, so there can be no consequences.
You have to prove it first. The frustrated mother told me, every small point is up for negotiation. It's utterly exhausting and humiliating to be spoken to in this way by a five-year-old.
The next thing I've overheard is upping the ante. You remember privileges, right? You were given privileges, the reward, which could be withdrawn, the punishment, if you did something that was wrong. But when a child said to his father, no, the privileges need to be better, he was upping the ante.
He was basically saying, sorry, dad, I'm not going to do what you tell me to do because the reward you propose is not good enough. Allowing this undermines the authority of a parent and reinforces the message to the child that he can get more for himself if he starts a bargaining process. Leverage removal.
A couple of grown-up brothers visiting their dad had a laugh remembering an attempt at behavior modification and consequences by their parents. They called their defense against the disciplinary tactic, no, I don't want it because you'll just take it away. Their answer was both ingenious and sadly quite common.
They refused to accept privileges. They even boycotted Christmas two years in a row. They just said we don't want any presents because they realized if they didn't accept presents, then the parents couldn't use them to be taken away and as leverage against them.
I remember that conversation really well. These two grown-up brothers, both were contractors, big burly guys, and they were talking to their father while I was present and their elderly father. They were laughing and they were saying, yeah, that was the best couple of years we ever had in our lives.
We could do anything. After they left, the father quickly turned to me and he said, it was all my wife's idea. But the father, you know, he told me he just had to step right in and stop what he called that consequence foolishness.
And then the last one is hostage taking. Consequences and behavior modification often result in hostage taking. Children refuse to do what you ask and bargain constantly.
I'll only go to sleep if you lie down next to me, they say. Hostage taking is a blend of two or more of the behaviors that I just described on the list. So there we have it.
They're the couple of pages I read of the Soul of Discipline book. But essentially what it all boils down to is that kids, when we apply consequences and we basically use if and then in the same sentence, if you don't do that, then we're not going to do that, then we're sunk because we're just giving them a choice. And I'm not suggesting discipline needs to be harsh in any way.
It's more that when we apply consequences, the children are not moving with us. They're not cooperating with us out of any sense of relationship, out of this is what we do in our family. This is how we get on together.
These are the values we have. They're not doing it for that reason. They're doing it for what they can get or what will be taken away or trying to lessen the punishment or increase the reward.
And consequences also have us often really scratching our head to figure out what kind of consequence can I give here? Particularly if a kid has developed consequence calluses or consequence immunity, they'll just say fine, whatever. And then where do you go? Then you get mad, right? You get mad or you get defeated one way or the other. The constant use of consequences like this can very much undermine our connection with our kids.
Because remember the word discipline comes from the word disciple, you know, to be followed. And if we want our children to follow our directions, then consequences are not the best way of doing it. Now, does that mean that there are no consequences in the world that the kids can do stuff and just walk away? Not at all, not in any way.
And next week, what I'll be addressing is what we can do to give a whole alternative to consequences that both builds connection, but also holds kids accountable. And that's what we'll be focusing on in the next podcast. Okay, I hope that was not too depressing today and somewhat illuminating.
And look forward to next week where we then take an upswing into what we can actually do. Okay, bye bye for now.
