Welcome back to the Simplicity Diaries with me, Kim John Payne. You did it again, carved out ten minutes or so to listen in. This week I wanted to talk about a very simple question that came my way from a dad, saying well look, you know all this stuff is well and good, but what do you do when your young child deliberately throws an apple on the floor, right? Sort of, I'm paraphrasing here, but looks you right in the eye, you might say something like no no, don't throw that on the floor, and they just look at you and just dump it right down on the floor and then either refuse to pick it up or run, you know.
I remember my own daughter sitting in a high chair and me saying no no, don't pick that food up with your hands please, no, and she picked it up with her hands, she was very little, and she had this and then she held it out to the side of her high chair and I said oh not on the floor, and she just dropped it and looked me right in the eye, it's like the look of and so what you gonna do about that? You know, maybe a lot of us know this one, but it's just not a good thing to get into a power struggle with a young child. We know that, but then what is it that we do? Okay, now first of all to understand what's going on, they are pinging, they are echolocating, they are trying it on, they're in a sense, in a deeper sense saying am I safe really? Are you in charge? Are you the leader? Are you in charge or can I do this? It's a pushing of the boundaries and we've got to remember that the boundaries, right, they're on one hand you keep a child, you know, reasonably and properly contained, you know, their behavior based on your values in your home. On the other hand, remember I recorded a podcast where these boundaries are also keeping scary stuff out as well and so a child's going to push on the boundaries to make sure they're safe.
They don't know they're doing that, but that is exactly what they're doing so much of the time. So with full knowledge of that, that it's a question of putting a boundary in place, a value-based discipline and being able to deal with the apple thrown on the floor, right? There is your moment. It's like a moment in time.
It's definitely a little bit of a power play, but it's definitely trying it on. Now one of the first things I think where we can go with this is, and this is a principle you've heard me say a lot, is connect before you correct, right? You connect first and it's like, oh dear, no, no, no, no. Something must be really going wrong for you to do that.
And it might be, and you get to the door so that he or she can't run. You know, obviously you're smart, you get to the escape route, but if you do that enough, basically a child's going to run if they know they're going to get shouted at, or they know they're going to have to be forced to do something right there and then. Sooner or later, when usually sooner, they'll understand they don't need to run when they do that sort of stuff if there's a connection first.
And what I mean by that is, oh my goodness, something must have gone wrong. You know what? This morning you brought in those big heavy shopping bags. You are such a helpful boy.
You are such a helpful child. But that's not helpful. It's not helpful.
So you connect, but you avoid going into a big lecture about food is precious. You're a helpful child. You're very helpful.
And that was not helpful. No, no, no. And we'll pick that apple up, but we'll pick that up later.
We're going to have some calm down time first, and we're going to wait until the grumps have gone, and then we'll pick the apple up. And Daddy will help you. Yeah, I'll help you.
But we'll wait until the grumps are gone. You might remember a previous podcast where this favorite little saying I have, if nothing gets worked out when we're worked up, nothing. So to force a child to pick it up there and then is seldom going to work unless we overpower them and shout at them.
We could do that, but very few of us want to do that. But it's calm down time now, and we're going to wait until the grumps are gone. Now doing all this is a combination of a two by two by one.
Two feet down, you're talking to a child. With your two feet down, you're not moving around. You're two feet away from a child, and you're giving only one simple either instruction or one simple sentence like, oh dear, something's gone wrong.
You're very helpful. It's just what you're not saying we're going to do this, and you're going to do that. It's just one thing, just one thing, and the one thing here is connecting, and we can do that over and over now.
And so we go to have sit down on the sofa and have cozy time. It might be that you bring his finger knitting out. It might be you bring his beeswax modeling board on that play tray.
It might be he just comes and sits, or they just come and sit up at the counter and say, you know what, I'm just going to finish clearing up the counter. And this is another way of calm down time is just to sit on the sofa beside them. But usually we've got stuff to do.
We've got to fold the laundry or whatever. And he sits, they sit right beside us, and we say, you know what, I remember when I remember when you were just a baby, and we went on the biggest, longest walk, and it got very dark, and you were so happy. You were so cheerful, and I was worried that it was getting very cold, but it didn't bother you.
Now, maybe the child's heard that story so many times. So I remember when I was just a little boy, and so you use. And again, there's another podcast on this.
This is weaving together a number of different strategies, as you can probably tell. You might just tell an I remember when story. You're cleaning up the counter after breakfast or whatever it is.
You're folding the laundry, you're tidying the lounge room, or you can just sit right beside. Now you've done your two by two by one. Now you can move.
But if it's a very elevated situation, I would sit right beside a child and not be moving around. That's a judgment call. You can move around if they're not going to run and take off.
If they're going to run and take off, you need to sit right beside them. Now, it might be they sit up at the counter, and you sit beside them, and you're peeling the carrots for dinner. You can still be doing stuff.
But the more elevated the situation, the closer you've got to be. But tell a little I remember when story. That's one you don't need equipment for.
You know, it might be a good idea to get the beeswax modeling down. It might be a good idea to have him look at his favorite little book. That's good, too.
But if you've got a hunch that he's going to run or that's not going to work, then get closer. Definitely get closer. It's absolutely worth investing the time to do this.
You might say, well, all this takes. But honestly, you know, getting into an argument and getting into a big power struggle takes a lot more time. And it just doesn't feel good.
We all know that. And it is worth front loading the time to do this. And then when the grumps are gone, it is absolutely.
You are going to go back and pick that apple up. And it might be we do it together. We go across and and maybe there's bits and pieces of the apple around on the floor.
And you and you help him. I've got no problems helping a child, a young child do things like that. It's no worries.
But we are we are going to do it. Or you hold the plate and he puts the apple on it. Or he holds the plate and you put the apple on it.
But it is being cleared up like there is no way around me, over me, under me. My fatherly will be done on earth as it is in with this apple. It's going to be done.
And if he read tantrums and he won't do it, then just wash, rinse, repeat, come back over. And we will have some some calm down time, even if it involves going to your room, to your bedroom, and where it's usually a quieter environment and you're in charge. It's your space.
And you take your knitting, you take your your notes, you take whatever, you take your mending and you just sit there, usually in front of the door. And a child will be crying and and be unhappy. And and you let them know you're keeping them safe.
But we're going to have some calm down time now till the grumps are gone. That's it. Don't get into a big discussion.
And then when the grumps are gone and a child's tears are drying up, and it might take 10, 15, 20 minutes, but then out we go. And I'm holding the plate, love, and you put the apple on or the other way around. Doesn't matter.
But we are going to do this. And it might be when you first kind of pull the reins in like this a little bit more, you know, that you're willing to die on that on that parental apple hill, that that it does take time. But it is so worth the time commitment to do it, because the second time you do it still be probably a bit tricky.
But many, many, many parents have said to me, oh, it took a lot less time. And eventually it takes no time at all until the situation flares up again where it does. And you've got to do it again, right? Their kids, they'll do stuff like that.
Last thing I want to mention is while all this is going on, be careful of your energy, be careful of where you are in yourself, so to speak. Keep your voice low and in your belly. Keep your voice down, not going up.
Keep your feet, you know, like big roots growing through the floor, you know, sort of deep down, because the energy of a lot of kids is up and out. When they've thrown an apple like that or thrown food or done something provocative and looked right at you, their energy is up, out and forward, because they're coming at you with their eyes, right? What are you going to do about that kind of thing? No, I won't pick it up. No, you can't make me.
Ha ha, you're the boss of me. Goodness, all that stuff, right? So they're coming at you forward, but they're getting a little bit out of themselves up. So our energy, so to speak, if we can wear this big cloak, you know, it's down and back, down and back.
So we don't get caught up in that upward movement. So when your child's done that, one of the first things to do is take a big old deep breath. We know that.
But I'd say more than a deep breath, go down. Go down into your feet. Feel your back.
Feel the back space. Wear a big old cloak, a big old velvet cloak. Feel it like, okay, I'm not going to get caught up in this.
I'm going to keep breathing. I'm going to go down. My energy's down.
My energy's back. I'm not leaning forward, like being a scary person, like leaning forward and head down and, you know, forehead braced for impact. No, I'm going to go down.
I'm going to go back. I'm going to stay centered. I'm going to breathe.
And I'm going in. But it's that connect first. Again, just in brief now.
Connect first. Oh, that must be very grumpy. Something must have gone wrong because you were so helpful just this morning.
And just connect. But we do need to pick the apple up. But not now.
Not while we're grumpy. Nothing gets worked out when we're worked up. Not in our family.
Come on over in the counter and we're going to have a little bit of calm down time. Because I forgot to tell you a story about Grandpa. I don't know if you know this one.
So it's connecting, but it's putting a boundary in place. Once the grumps are gone, then you go back and you pick up the blooming apple, right? But you help. And if need be, and while you're doing all this, make sure your energy is down and back.
Down and back. All right. I sure hope that was helpful about the apple wars.
Okay. Bye bye for now.
